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Gilbert to Mini for Schultz

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:24 pm
Don't know much about Schultz

a quick check over his stats show he logs most ES & PK minutes for the wild. and is a solid shutdown guy, TSN seem to think it's a good trade for both teams
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:28 pm
http://puttingonthefoil.com/2012/02/gilbert-traded/
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:57 pm
I hope you remember to bring home flowers for your GF. Gonna be a long day.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:02 pm
Grit for offence. Need for need and we gain 500k in cap. Good deal.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:03 pm
Ktown wrote:I hope you remember to bring home flowers for your GF. Gonna be a long day.

:mrgreen: :lol:
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:12 pm
LOL, she's taking it well, all things considered. I think the fact he's going home to Minnesota helps a bit. I think he'll be great there, to be honest. Should fit in well with their needs.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:46 pm
Alan-NottsUK wrote:Don't know much about Schultz

a quick check over his stats show he logs most ES & PK minutes for the wild. and is a solid shutdown guy, TSN seem to think it's a good trade for both teams


As a Minnesota fan, I will say that Schultz has been a very underrated defenseman in the league for a long time as he spent nearly ten seasons as a top-4 defenseman in Minnesota. He may only be 6'1" but he is very sound positionally and is a good penalty killer. After all, over his entire career up to this point, he played on a team which is perennially one of the best penalty killing teams in the league and he was a large part of those teams.

I agree that this trade helps both teams. Schultz is a shutdown defenseman the Oilers could pair with almost anyone on our back end, especially one of our bigger defensemen such as Andy Sutton, and for Minnesota, they have a replacement for the recently traded Marek Zidlicky.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:35 pm
MG10 wrote:
Alan-NottsUK wrote:Don't know much about Schultz

a quick check over his stats show he logs most ES & PK minutes for the wild. and is a solid shutdown guy, TSN seem to think it's a good trade for both teams


As a Minnesota fan, I will say that Schultz has been a very underrated defenseman in the league for a long time as he spent nearly ten seasons as a top-4 defenseman in Minnesota. He may only be 6'1" but he is very sound positionally and is a good penalty killer. After all, over his entire career up to this point, he played on a team which is perennially one of the best penalty killing teams in the league and he was a large part of those teams.

I agree that this trade helps both teams. Schultz is a shutdown defenseman the Oilers could pair with almost anyone on our back end, especially one of our bigger defensemen such as Andy Sutton, and for Minnesota, they have a replacement for the recently traded Marek Zidlicky.


MG10, I heard that Schultz is a heart and soul guy with a lot of character and a typical grit and sandpaper defensive d-man who's reliable. I've even seen a comment today that he could be our Jason Smith V2.0, how accurate is this? I'm curious, can we depend on him in critical situations? Looking at the stats he's no Dan Girardi (blocks/hits) but I get the feeling we can depend on him defensively.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:52 pm
I was going to say something similar on the blog then I thought about it... I don't think he'll entirely bring what Jason Smith did, so don't expect that. Really, Smith brought a LOT of sandpaper and could scrap quite well and was mean. Schultz probably brings a lot of heart and different form of toughness though, but Gator of course had that mean edge and could back it up.. plus he'd stand up for teammates. Schultz... a guy that has barely scrapped at all in his career.. pretty safe to say he doesn't bring that. But I have no doubts that he has a lot of heart though. Just think Smith 2.0 is a bit too lofty.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:49 pm
Wow. Is it just me or does Gilbert look horrid in all the Minnie goals against on the highlights? I feel better about this trade every day.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:53 am
chucker wrote:Wow. Is it just me or does Gilbert look horrid in all the Minnie goals against on the highlights? I feel better about this trade every day.


Gilbert's performance with Minnesota has no true bearing on the outcome of the trade. He was a solid player for us and had the capacity to carry a heavy load in all situations with good results. Whether or not he fails to reproduce those results with another team is irrelevant. Should he have remained, it is much more likely that he had produced similar results to what he was doing before, rather than struggle like he has, apparently, done in Minny.

This is similar to the ideas that appeared after the Penner trade. Some argue that it was a perfect trade for the reason that Penner has struggled with his new team, but we cannot know that Penner hadn't done much better if he remained with us. Different systems, different linemates, different outcomes. I like Schultz, but I don't like the idea that Tambellini moves our (arguably) best defenseman for a slightly less well-rounded one in order to help our defense. That's getting less value than we should have.

We can, however, measure what both players in a trade did and have since done in Oilers jersies. Schultz hasn't fared badly at all, but does he fill all the holes left when we moved Gilbert? I'm not so sure. What players do once they leave is irrelevant, at least in the case where players are in the midst of their NHL careers and having already reached their potential. That's another question.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:40 am
NorwegianOiler wrote:
chucker wrote:Wow. Is it just me or does Gilbert look horrid in all the Minnie goals against on the highlights? I feel better about this trade every day.


Gilbert's performance with Minnesota has no true bearing on the outcome of the trade. He was a solid player for us and had the capacity to carry a heavy load in all situations with good results. Whether or not he fails to reproduce those results with another team is irrelevant. Should he have remained, it is much more likely that he had produced similar results to what he was doing before, rather than struggle like he has, apparently, done in Minny.

This is similar to the ideas that appeared after the Penner trade. Some argue that it was a perfect trade for the reason that Penner has struggled with his new team, but we cannot know that Penner hadn't done much better if he remained with us. Different systems, different linemates, different outcomes. I like Schultz, but I don't like the idea that Tambellini moves our (arguably) best defenseman for a slightly less well-rounded one in order to help our defense. That's getting less value than we should have.

We can, however, measure what both players in a trade did and have since done in Oilers jersies. Schultz hasn't fared badly at all, but does he fill all the holes left when we moved Gilbert? I'm not so sure. What players do once they leave is irrelevant, at least in the case where players are in the midst of their NHL careers and having already reached their potential. That's another question.

I would say Gilbert finally had a good season and we moved him while he looked good. He does bring things that Schultz does not, but I was never a fan of Gilbert. Too soft, and just not that good in his own end. I get the different roles and systems etc., but I still think we dealt two players who were decent here, but really are not great players at all. Just my opinion.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:02 pm
I've got a pretty big rebuttal to all this.. I think I'll turn it into a blog post, so stand by for that.

But quick summation from me: I think Gilbert's numbers are better in Minny than they appear to be, however I also am very happy with Schultz.

I too agree that you can't judge a player's play on another team as success for a trade. However, Schultz has been great for us, so I'm happy with the deal.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:45 pm
Racki wrote:I've got a pretty big rebuttal to all this.. I think I'll turn it into a blog post, so stand by for that.

But quick summation from me: I think Gilbert's numbers are better in Minny than they appear to be, however I also am very happy with Schultz.

I too agree that you can't judge a player's play on another team as success for a trade. However, Schultz has been great for us, so I'm happy with the deal.


Haven't seen a game from Gilbert in a Wild jersey, so personally I wouldn't know. The principal certainly stands. If you give away a quality player for your team and he proceeds to fail in his new environment, you've still given away a prized asset.

Schultz is fine. 80 cents on the dollar, though.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:24 pm
My long-winded opinion and then some.

To sum though, I'd say this:
- We sold high, and probably bought a significant margin below high, and unfortunately on the downward swing.
- I think we traded a high-potential, high-risk for less potential, less risk.
- I think this deal was good for the Oilers.
- I think this deal was good for the Wild.

I think more tweaking of our d is definitely in order. With this trade comes some opportunity for others to step up (Ex. Petry). I don't think that makes it the smartest deal though.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:40 pm
I don't think you mean "tweak". :D
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:41 pm
LOL, tweak .. maybe not.. but I think it's far less of an overhaul than we've needed in previous years.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:52 pm
Adding to that, I think we lost a bit of flash in Gilbert, but our blueline, on paper anyways, looks more steady with the likes of Smid, Petry, Whitney, Potter, Schultz, and Sutton. It's not an all-star cast, by any imagination, but it has more of a feel of getting the job done. I think it's important we have guys that can move the puck (something Gilbert was special at), but it's even more important to have guys that can battle in their own zone. That's priority number one. I think we have that more than we have in the past. I also think that each of those 6 guys CAN move the puck up ice. Maybe not with the same adaptness as Gilbert though (save for Petry, potentially), but they can do it with average or better efficiency.

As for the future, Barker will be gonzo, unless our GM is an idiot (insert laughter here). Theo Peckham might be moved, he might not. I'm sort of on the fence as to whether that is a good idea or not, but I've been leaning more and more towards it being a good idea. However, we're selling low if we trade him after this year. I do think that we should consider moving him though if we want a blue line that is built up of guys that are capable at both ends of the rink.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:07 pm
Racki wrote:I've got a pretty big rebuttal to all this.. I think I'll turn it into a blog post, so stand by for that.

But quick summation from me: I think Gilbert's numbers are better in Minny than they appear to be, however I also am very happy with Schultz.

I too agree that you can't judge a player's play on another team as success for a trade. However, Schultz has been great for us, so I'm happy with the deal.

If you don't judge the trade on the play after the trade, that is really the point of the trade. I.E., the end result to your team and how the player fits in is the judge of the trade, along with, the factor of what you may have lost from the other player, as well as what the former player is now playing like. I get that some players do better in some structures and it is still a very short time from the trade, but I would say that we acquired a player that fits our needs better. Perhaps Minnie did too, but I still like the trade. I also like the cap savings.

I know Gilbert was putting up good numbers on a bad team, but i wonder if one could argue that it is because he was simply the best or a shit d corps. That can go pro and con though. I get lots of people think we did not get enough, but the cap savings, even though only 500k, is a factor.

Perhaps both teams have younger guys the are confident will be just as good or better than both traded players. Thus, need for need. Lots to look at.

Like I said, I am likely biased as I never really liked Gilbert, but I still like what we did.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:39 pm
I think you judge it based on how well that player fit in your game plan before and improved your team vs. how well that the new player fits within your game plan and improves your team.

And well, I think on that note, it works well for us, because I honestly do believe Schultz improves us in more areas than Gilbert did.

We have often seen a player suck horribly here and go somewhere else and fare better, but I can't be bothered to worry about how someone plays elsewhere. That's the flip side of what you're talking about.. (you're talking about a player going elsewhere and not playing well.. although I don't think Gilbert is really that bad for Minny).

Really all this is moot for me, though, because like I said, I was pretty happy about this trade regardless of how well he does in Minny (that is more the long winded post on the blog where I mention that). I think the trade benefits both sides.
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